Lucy Howell (00:01.816)
welcome back to another episode of For All Stages and Ages. Today I'm joined by Tina Southwood. Tina is a sleep training consultant. So lovely to have you on the podcast, Tina. Thank you so much for coming on. Do you want to tell everyone a little bit about you and your background?
Tina (00:22.006)
Yes, of course, yeah. Well, I've always had a great love of babies and children from since I was tiny, tiny, tiny myself. My mum used to be a childminder back in the 70s and 80s and I was always baby obsessed. So I think that's where my love of babies and children came from and I always seemed very, very confident and natural around them. However, I left school and very quickly became a daytime nanny looking after always
usually always newborns or toddlers and absolutely loved it. Then I moved from London to St. Neitz in 1988 and continued with my career as a daytime professional nanny which I absolutely loved for 17 years. So worked for one family, both of their babies from birth to age 9 and 7 and absolutely loved it. I was then kind of a bit in between
between jobs, knew that I always wanted to continue in the baby industry but didn't really know quite what I wanted to do. I was in between jobs, was registered with a few local agencies and they contacted me out of the blue and they just said, I've got a family living locally, really struggling with their baby, are you able to help them? They just want day times. The mum was really struggling with postnatal depression, wasn't really
bonding with the baby. The baby had a lot of medical issues that hadn't really been properly addressed. They'd stopped giving him the medication because they felt it wasn't working anyway. I stepped in, this was back in about 2004.
Lucy Howell (01:56.802)
Okay.
Tina (02:10.178)
So I'd been a daytime nanny for babies for 17 years and then in 2004 I sort of stepped into the kind of more the sleep side of things for babies. So I stepped in, started working with this baby who was just about five months old, like five and a half months old. The mum was in a really bad way. I normally she was a know professional, had a good job, very confident mum, very business minded but she'd lost all of her confidence.
Lucy Howell (02:22.314)
Yeah.
Tina (02:40.084)
she really was struggling with her baby and he was waking up seven eight times a night just wasn't barely even making 45 minutes sleep cycles so I stepped in did the day times and that was the start of my career as a maternity night nurse and a sleep consultant so the mum basically she said to me you know Tina I think you're really wasted as a daytime nanny you know you've got this talent you don't really really
Lucy Howell (03:01.548)
Okay.
Tina (03:10.228)
you've got, you should set up your own business. So I thought living in a small town like St. Nierks, it's not probably not going to work. I was very, wrong. So very quickly, she had recommended me to a lot of her friends who part of her NCT group. And within weeks, I was traveling around different villages, seeing different families, just giving them some gentle guidance and tips.
Lucy Howell (03:22.7)
I
Tina (03:39.908)
and stuff like that for their babies. Most of the babies at that time were sort of all under eight months of age. And then she said to me, look, I really feel I can help you with setting up a business. So I thought, well, I'd love to do this. This would be my absolute dream, working with babies and newborns and families and helping them. So in 2005, I set up Sleep Baby Sleep and it's literally gone from strength
to strength. got myself onto lots of courses. Obviously I'd already had the 17 years of hands -on experience with babies and toddlers anyway, but I really wanted to focus on the sleep side of things. within, I think it was within two to three weeks of looking after this particular baby, he was sleeping 12 hours a night. And that was basically just by, I always say to all of my clients, I'm not a doctor, I'm not medically trained, but I always
Because I've got the experience, I will always signpost or give them the tips and the advice and then they can sort of see where they go from there. So I had suggested to this particular client that she reinstated the medication that the baby was on at that time that she had stopped. And obviously certain medications do come with side effects. constipation, various things that it can cause side effects. But obviously again, with my experience,
sort of knew how to handle those minor details. So she'd reinstated the medication. At the same time, he coincided with this baby starting to become weaned onto solid food, which obviously did help because this baby had significant reflux issues and was intolerant to certain food groups. we'd got him started onto weaning. That did lead to a few other complications and problems, but we resolved those.
and yeah very quickly he was doing sort of up to 12 hours at night. Mum was a new woman. So I continued working for them for I think it was about 10 months as a daytime nanny just going to them on a daily basis trying to build mum's confidence up and really really enjoyed it and then after that I set up my own business Sleep Baby Sleep. Been going around consulting, seeing families on a day -to -day basis and on
Tina (06:09.204)
On top of that I'm a night maternity nurse for newborns. So that's what I do mostly. Most of my work is at night. I generally do a 10 to 12 hour overnight shift starting at 9, finishing at 7. Flexible with the start time. If I'm going in on a sleep training job obviously they want me there a lot earlier to sort out the bedtime routine. But that's generally how sleep, baby sleep, started.
Lucy Howell (06:13.848)
Okay.
Lucy Howell (06:36.034)
Fantastic. That's a lovely story. Yeah, we, I probably could have done with someone like you actually when my little boy was born. He is four now and he was born in the very first lockdown, literally like the first week of the first lockdown that we had in the UK. So I had none of the NCT classes. I had no parenting groups. All of my, I think my last,
Yeah, my last but one scan was cancelled. All of that was we had we had no support at all because of it being COVID. So we were pretty much kind of like left to, you know, here's a baby, off you go. That was that was our kind of journey with it. So I had no support with sleep and.
Tina (07:10.05)
was beautiful time.
Tina (07:20.008)
Yeah. Great.
Lucy Howell (07:27.818)
My little boy, very similar to the story that you just told. We struggled really badly with him, especially in the first, I'd say. I'd say it was probably about the first four months, which were really bad, where after he was born, he was very attachment sort of sleeping. We couldn't get him to sleep in a cot. We couldn't get him to sleep in a crib. We couldn't get him to sleep in our bed, anywhere we put him. If he wasn't on me or his dad.
Tina (07:56.236)
Bye.
Lucy Howell (07:56.812)
he would not sleep. So eventually the only way that we could get him to sleep was to kind of tag team sleep with him. So I would get up in the night, I would do four hours and sleep, you know, sit and watch the TV while he was sleeping. And my husband would have a sleep and then my husband would set his alarm at like three o 'clock in the morning. He would get up and then swap with me so that I could sleep. It was an absolute nightmare.
Tina (08:04.482)
you.
Lucy Howell (08:25.886)
So, and then the older he got, he got into after sort of six months, we started having problems with his sort of dietary things. We started realizing that he was excessively crying. He was starting to get little rashes on his body. He was having problems with his bowel motions. He was either constipated or he was very, very loose. so we took him down to the doctors and they, turned out he got a,
protein milk allergy, cow's milk protein allergy. So we had to switch him over to special formula, then he had colic. So all of the sleeping thing was just an absolute horror story for us. was, and he's now four. He doesn't have a milk allergy anymore, which is great. He went straight onto cow's milk after he kind of was allowed to go onto cow's milk and he was absolutely fine with it. And
Tina (08:57.196)
Yeah.
Tina (09:02.218)
I did. Lots going on.
Tina (09:20.842)
See you.
Lucy Howell (09:22.422)
He's four now and I would say it's only in the last maybe year that he's actually slept through the night. It's only been since he was about maybe three years and about two months I'd say that he's actually had a full night's sleep without waking up in the night.
so yeah, we've had a hard time with him with his sleep. It's settled now, but it's taken us four years to get to that stage. So definitely, definitely. So as, as a, either maternity or, or from sort of your sleep baby training, what would you say the most common sleep challenges are that parents face with a newborn and an infant?
Tina (09:45.463)
Tough times.
Tina (09:53.57)
Wow, I'm very exhausting.
Tina (10:14.85)
basically getting them down and settled.
on their own, I think. So obviously as a sleep therapist, when I go out and I do my consulting during the day and see parents, those babies are mostly from six months plus because sleep training you shouldn't do before six months and not recommended before six months. So all of my consulting for sleep is for babies from six months onwards. And the biggest challenge I think is that parents perhaps have had a baby that has had some reflux issues,
Lucy Howell (10:19.179)
Yeah.
Tina (10:47.796)
some kind of underlying medical issue that has not been picked up and the baby obviously if you feed the baby in the early weeks you you bring your baby home from hospital you're told feed feed feed let's get their weight up they're feeding feeding feeding try to put the baby down the baby has excess wind it might have some reflux you put it down too quickly not all new parents recognize that the baby has trapped wind so they might put their baby down too quickly and then of course the baby might settle
for say 10, 15, 20 minutes and then start to regurgitate. Of course the baby's never gonna settle, you're gonna have a baby that's fidgety, fractious and just will not sleep well. So that I would say is probably one of the biggest challenges when it comes to sleep in the early stages is the trapped wind, incorrect winding techniques. I mean some babies do just hold on to their wind a lot more and it can be quite a lot of vigorous.
one at the moment who's just four weeks old and in fact I actually recommended that they swap her formula almost immediately. I started with her when she was five days old and immediately she looked like a very very healthy baby, was a good weight, she was formula fed and I immediately thought there's just something not right with this baby. She's just not settled, she's screaming in the evenings and was just seeming just not as settled and as contented as she should have been.
So I suggest quite quickly that we swap formulas immediately. Within a week she's bringing up her burps lovely, she's just a lot more settled, much happier baby. We're getting like half the time, know, the screen, it's not a special formula, it's just a different formula brand. but yeah, it's already made a really big difference, really big difference. but I think definitely early stages.
Lucy Howell (12:40.012)
Yeah. Do you, sorry to interrupt, do you find with that there is a difference between sleep issues with formula fed babies and breastfed babies? The reason I ask is that obviously unless you're pumping breast from the breast, you can tell, you can kind of gauge how much milk they're having. Whereas...
Tina (13:03.468)
Yes.
Lucy Howell (13:04.706)
bottle fed, obviously they can, you we knew exactly how many ounces he was having, how often he was having it. But if they're going straight onto the breast and they're just having it that way, do you find that that can sometimes cause an issue in terms that mum maybe thinks that they're getting enough milk and maybe they're not sometimes? that sometimes the reason that they're sleeping is actually they're hungry.
Tina (13:13.804)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tina (13:24.487)
Thank
Exactly that, exactly that. again, believe it or not, I actually work with more breastfeeding mums than non -breastfeeding mums, which is quite a surprise because when people realise the work I do, they automatically assume that the parents I work for must have their babies just formula fed. Actually, no, a bigger percentage of my clients breastfeed. So definitely, I always say when I'm going in with a very newborn baby, I some of the babies I'm working with
Lucy Howell (13:35.021)
Yeah.
Tina (13:57.79)
with have literally just come home from hospital that day. So if they're exclusively breastfed I will always explain to the parents that if you want to exclusively breastfeed your baby I am obviously here to try and give you as much sleep as I can possibly give you but your baby's needs will always have to come first so if I haven't got expressed breast milk to offer the baby or if you're not inclined to give formula I will have to come and wake you up.
could be numerous times throughout the night, be know constant and I always make that clear from day one that that's how it works because with a newborn baby having a tiny, the smaller the baby the more frequently the feeds will need to be so of course but yeah you know when I'm working with just a formula fed baby I can see exactly how much they're taking and that's a really good guide but most importantly I'm working on the weight of the baby.
to know just how much they're capable of taking. And obviously in the early weeks of life, their tummies are so tiny that you're just, you are feeding frequently and a lot. So.
Lucy Howell (15:07.48)
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's sometimes it's kind of going back onto the breastfed thing as well. Cause my summer's formula fed. I always, I wanted to try breastfeeding and I did try. But I was, it wasn't going to be a thing that I, we'd gone for bottle. That was it. It was always going to be bottle fed. Cause I wanted my husband to be able to help as well. And my milk never really came in, but what my point was that
Tina (15:30.082)
Yeah.
Lucy Howell (15:36.63)
I think we sort of take it for granted that it's kind of an easy thing to do to breastfeed. And because I wasn't, because my little boy was born in COVID, I didn't have any like maternity help or anything like that to sort of encourage the milk to come in. And when I was just sort of left on my own with him, I was thinking my milk hasn't come in, but maybe with a bit of support, it could have, you know, if a nurse had kind of said, you need to do this and...
Tina (15:46.752)
support. No. Sure.
Tina (16:01.874)
Okay. Of course.
Lucy Howell (16:03.628)
You you need to massage it. need to sort of, you know, not push it out, obviously, but, you know, a bit of stimulation and things like that. It may have come in on its own. So obviously, if parents aren't getting that kind of assistance or that advice or guidance, and they may not know, and they may be putting the baby straight on the boob and assuming that it's OK and they've got enough milk and that's it, and it's maybe not.
Tina (16:07.18)
what do we do with that?
Tina (16:13.878)
Yeah.
Tina (16:30.024)
And we're all unique and individual and we produce milk at a different rate. know, so some mothers, their milk is already in before they've given birth. Other mothers, it can take days for their milk to come through. you know, yeah, a lot of the time you are faced with a baby that is fussing and discontent. So, yeah, you know, every family is unique and different.
Lucy Howell (16:53.782)
Yeah, definitely. And you mentioned sleep training. So can you kind of clarify what sleep training actually is? because I know maybe for me anyway, when I hear sleep training, I think of like the cry out method. That's kind of what my head goes to when I hear sleep training and I kind of bulk at that a little bit. I know it works for some people, but for me, it wasn't an option. I didn't really want to do that.
So maybe can you kind of explain sleep training and some of the different methods and how parents could maybe decide which one might work for them?
Tina (17:28.77)
Sure.
Tina (17:33.346)
Exactly and that's really important actually that you've mentioned this because that's something when I go in with a family the first thing I try to establish is how they want to parent their child. So if I'm going in with a family and that's one of the first questions I will ask is you know I can come up with numerous techniques for sleep training. First and foremost gentle techniques that are much more baby led will take a lot longer to achieve but they are achievable. So that's the first important rule.
is that we can achieve really good results but if I leave you with something that you're not comfortable with you are going to fail at the first hurdle. I don't want to leave this house knowing that you are struggling or finding it stressful. If I left you with a really strict plan, for example controlled crying, you're not going to feel comfortable in doing that. You're going to be crying with your baby and that's not right. So first and foremost I like to figure out
Lucy Howell (18:30.039)
Yeah.
Tina (18:34.337)
How old the baby is how well the baby is doing generally I will always prefer to give a much more gentle baby led sleep training technique first Whatever that takes and there are so many different ways that we can do it It all depends on what the baby's doing and but again with sleep training. We're covering everything here. It's not just sleep It's everything it's you know talking about their their day their day -to -day Structure, you know as in not just
sleep but it covers how much they're eating, how much they're drinking, their physical... it depends on the age of the child obviously if they're once they're walking it will be a little bit different but making sure that they're getting enough daylight, sunlight, vitamin D, making sure that their diet is good and healthy and that they're getting good protein. All of these things will come into play when we're talking about sleep so yeah again first and foremost making sure that the
parents are happy with the advice I've given them. If I leave them with a plan that's too strict, as soon as I leave their house I know that they're going to say I can't do this so I make sure that they are confident in moving forwards and if they want to... I say to them I'm not here to you know it's down to you how long you want this to take I'm not going to call you in three four five days time and say right you know is your baby sleeping through now? Your baby should be sleeping through that's not what I'm about it doesn't matter to me if it takes a week two weeks
It doesn't matter if it takes months, know, little steps are better for families that want to do things softly, gently.
Lucy Howell (20:10.05)
Yeah. Perfect. And you mentioned consistency there and routine. And I was going to say that that probably was one of the contributing factors with my son having sleep problems, but because it was locked down, there wasn't really that many places to kind of go. So I wasn't able to kind of work. My husband was working various hours, but not as regular as he would have been doing. So.
Tina (20:27.382)
Nah, I'm not.
Lucy Howell (20:35.948)
We would go out, we would go and get some sunlight by going for a walk, for example, but because none of the baby clubs were open, of the parks were shut still when we were allowed to go. So all we had was the ability to just walk around the streets. And it just completely threw our whole day off. And I think for our son, that probably wasn't a great thing because we didn't have a routine.
Tina (20:52.354)
perfect racing board.
Lucy Howell (21:05.356)
Therefore he didn't have a routine and it was like, okay, well, it's bed, we know it's bedtime for you now at, you know, six o 'clock or whatever time it was when we used to put him to sleep. But for him, he might've been thinking, well, I haven't really been outside very much today or I haven't done anything today, you know, and I think yeah, consistency and exactly, you know, if he's not getting sort of stimulated, we were obviously doing things in the house with him.
Tina (21:17.068)
Yeah.
Tina (21:24.228)
not much short -term protection.
Lucy Howell (21:32.93)
But it's not quite the same as being outside as often as we would have been if everywhere was open.
Tina (21:38.979)
Exactly, exactly. It's important that they get that stimulation and especially social interaction with other children and families.
Lucy Howell (21:48.052)
Exactly, yeah definitely. So how can parents help their babies differentiate between day and night time? Is there anything that they can do? Do things like blackout curtains or blackout blinds help?
Tina (22:03.651)
of course, I mean, yeah, I think, you know, in terms of, yeah.
helping babies to differentiate between day and night is definitely worth getting like I mean I again I say this loosely because there aren't any hard and fixed rules that you should and shouldn't have but it's more about helping the baby to understand you know what's happening next kind of having a little bit of a sequence of events so the baby understands what's going to happen next and doing that from a very early age but in terms of settling baby down for naps yeah I think it's important that baby understands
Lucy Howell (22:15.416)
you
Tina (22:37.412)
this is what's happening and this is we're preparing for sleep now. So obviously having a bit of a wind down before sleep. I mean again it really depends on the age of the child so working with a newborn baby and then working with a toddler is very very different. Awake windows are so important for all ages so checking you know making sure that you can understand and recognize your baby's awake window and how much they can cope with before they start to show you the signs of tiredness.
really really essential in helping the baby to achieve sleep and to sleep well. But yeah I mean you know I always say doesn't have to be like blackout blinds. The darker the room the better of course for sleep. You know it helps all of us to sleep better if we've got the you know darker room. But again in the daytime doesn't have to be a pitch black room so long as the room is kind of no bright lights blaring and stuff like that and it's I think you know having a bit of noise in the background normally works better than
silence, especially if there are other siblings in the house or pets. I always think a little bit of background noise is better. Babies love to hear voices so there have been many, many occasions where I've been out consulting and the mum sort of said to me, my baby just never sleeps, doesn't sleep. Okay, give me the baby. Babies say three months old, I'm standing there with the baby in my arms, we're just talking like as we are right now and the baby just goes to sleep.
in my arms. think babies actually prefer to hear that bit of background noise, to hear mummy and daddy and just hear voices. They just seem to sleep better with that. There have been times where I've sort of suggested put the vacuum cleaner on in the background and just just hoover around whilst baby's in the cot. Just simple things. know, a fan, anything like that will work better than silence.
Lucy Howell (24:34.572)
Yeah, it was one of the, when my little boy was having his naps, we actually made a thing of keeping, not obviously having it blaring, but like you say, we would still carry on with our normal day. So we would have the TV on, we would have friends, you know, talking on the phone or, yeah, because we didn't want him to only be able to sleep in complete silence because that wasn't going to be.
Tina (24:50.37)
real.
Tina (24:57.762)
Thanks
Lucy Howell (24:59.84)
something that we could continue long term because if we needed to pop to the shops with him and he fell asleep and it was his nap time, I need to be able to go to the shops or I need to go out, I didn't want to disturb him. But obviously if he's only able to sleep in complete and utter silence in a darkened room, it's not sustainable. So we always made a point of keeping a bit of a noise level. And I think that that did help.
Tina (25:06.388)
Exactly. Yeah.
Tina (25:11.084)
Yeah. Sure.
Tina (25:19.778)
Yeah.
Tina (25:27.81)
Definitely and it's like everything isn't it you know for babies that are just used to sleeping in their cots and in their cots only You know because you can be you can almost be too strict with it You know if the baby's only used to sleeping in their cot in the day times what happens when you go on holiday? You know so flexibility is everything you know when I'm working with babies. You know there will be although you know
Lucy Howell (25:38.168)
Yeah.
Lucy Howell (25:44.45)
Exactly.
Tina (25:52.514)
Consistency is really important, but once the baby is sleeping well, then you can be much more flexible. So when I'm going into a family and I suggest a plan for them to start to implement themselves with the baby encouraging better sleep habits, I would always suggest to start with being really, really consistent for at least the first two to four weeks. Be really consistent in your approach in how you get the baby to sleep so that the baby first and foremost understands
what's happening and what you're doing. Once that's been achieved then of course you can be much more flexible in how the baby, where the baby sleeps because you know there many times where I'll just cuddle and pat the baby to sleep or I'll use the pram to rock the baby to sleep so of course when you go on holiday or you're just going out for the day your baby can sleep in the pram, pushchair or wherever you might be in the sling.
Lucy Howell (26:48.704)
Lovely. OK. And what advice would you have for parents that are maybe considering bringing someone like yourself in a consultant or someone to help them with sleep issues, but are maybe feeling a bit guilty about bringing someone in because they may feel a bit like, well, I'm their parent. I should be able to put my baby to sleep. You know, this is they may have that kind of feeling of failing as a parent and, know,
What sort of advice would you have for them?
Tina (27:19.682)
When I started 21 years ago, when I set up Sleep Baby Sleep in 2005, I used to come across that a lot. Parents feeling guilty about calling me. I'd have parents, a lot of parents calling me in floods of tears. I'd have parents say to me, please don't let anyone know that I've contacted you. I'm pleased to say that over the years I've seen a big shift in that.
a lot more normal now for parents to use a sleep consultant, sleep therapist or just just generally get some tips and advice. Again you know when parents call me you don't you know I say to them you don't have to take my advice. We can be we can alter it and change it and it to a way that it suits you and your family but absolutely there shouldn't be any guilt whatsoever in contacting. I think with anything in life if you're struggling you ask for help.
and that's exactly how it should be. Babies don't come with a journal and every baby is different and unique. you know 21 years down the line of working with literally hundreds and hundreds of families I'm still finding new things about babies, figuring new ways of doing things you know so absolutely there should not be any guilt attached to it at all.
Lucy Howell (28:44.856)
Definitely. And that's exactly why Stages for Ages was set up to kind of give parents that, I suppose, a village of support essentially, where they can access this kind of information as a sort of an all -in -one platform to be able to get all of the information that they might need in one place. And obviously having experts like yourself coming in and helping is amazing. And we really appreciate that.
Tina (29:04.524)
Yeah.
Lucy Howell (29:12.884)
One of the, I suppose, the key kind of questions that I wanted to ask, because it's one of the, I suppose, more serious sides of sleeping, would be the guidance around safe and comfortable sleep for babies. Because I know it varies country to country and it sometimes changes depending on laws and regulations. So.
What are the key kind of components at the moment for a safe and comfortable sleep environment for babies? Where should they be sleeping and what in?
Tina (29:45.11)
Really good question, absolutely. ideally, their own cot, crib or Moses basket. The baby should not be too hot, should never wear hats. Feet to foot position, really important. But basically, yeah, I mean, I can go on and on about smoking, non -smoking, stuff like that, but I won't. But yes, basic, to keep it really simple, feet to foot position in their own crib, Moses basket or cot.
is the safest way for a baby to sleep. Nothing in the cot, nothing at all. No teddies, no extra blankets, no muslins, no toys. An empty cot with a firm, flat mattress.
Lucy Howell (30:29.28)
Lovely. And just from your point of view, and I know this was one thing that I sort of struggled to kind of understand, but for the people that are listening, can you just clarify the position on cot bumpers and why they are not recommended for people to have in cots?
Tina (30:47.158)
Yeah.
Absolutely, yeah. Cot bumpers are absolutely not recommended at all. They're not recommended for safe sleep. I know people do like to use them because they think they're pretty and they make the nursery look lovely, but absolutely they are not recommended. There shouldn't be anything surrounding the cot, nothing in baby's way at all. You know, I know people will say, well, a newborn baby's not going to roll or move or anything like that, but you know, again, air quality is really important when a baby's sleeping. Of course, babies do move around very, very quickly.
a lot of the time without us even realising it. So, you know, they could move, they couldn't get caught up in them. Just an empty cot is the safest cot and the safest way for sleep. So no cot bumpers.
Lucy Howell (31:32.834)
Okay, fantastic. And then just to kind of finish on, there, just to kind of go through a couple of kind of common sort of issues that I've seen people mentioning. So how can parents deal with sleep disruptions like teething, for example, or the many sleep progressions that children go through? How can they kind of deal with those if they've got them in a routine and then something kind of disturbs that routine that they've already got?
Tina (32:02.418)
and of course, and it doesn't matter how good the routine is that the baby is in, there will be times throughout the baby's life that that will change and that will alter. know, routines, I can set a routine up for a family with a young baby and within six months that routine will change and alter, but only very slightly. But yeah, I think, you know, it's important to remember when the baby's unwell, so with teething, like you say,
the right medication for the baby is the first thing that I would be suggesting, you know, ibuprofen if the baby's over six months. It's really good for inflammation of the gums. So that's what I would recommend. Calpol. All of the usual things for teething babies. If you prefer like a more natural route, then obviously your powders, your Ashton Parsons powders. Cold flannels, things like that on the baby's gums. All really, really helpful. But of course there are still going to be times if the baby
is unwell, got a fever or something like that, then I would always say if we're going through a sleep training program you have to stop. Really unfortunate but even if we're three days into the sleep training program and the baby is unwell, stop the program, focus on the baby, do what you have got to do to get through this difficult time. It doesn't matter what you do, even if you have to resort back to cuddling the baby for every single sleep.
that's what you've got as a parent that's what you've got to do you know so don't beat yourself up about it don't feel like you failed or you've regressed you know you can always get baby back on track so yeah just relax basically relax and enjoy your baby enjoy the cuddles
Lucy Howell (33:48.974)
Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Okay, fantastic. Well, I'm gonna ask one more question, I think, before you go. What's the best piece of sleep advice that you've ever received or given to someone that worked really well for you, for a client of yours?
Tina (34:13.568)
the best advice that I've ever given to them.
Lucy Howell (34:15.614)
Yeah, that you've either ever heard or that you've given to someone that you you say would be the best piece of sleep advice.
Tina (34:22.898)
I think the best piece of sleep advice would be to kind of just first and foremost enjoy your baby. They're little for such a short time so don't get stressed. As you can imagine I see parents on a daily, weekly basis that are stressed and not enjoying their baby, struggling to bond with their babies at times because of the lack of sleep and this phase is not going to be forever. So relax, enjoy your baby.
Don't beat yourself up if you have to cuddle your baby to sleep, you're not failing. you know, yeah, I think in terms of actual achieving good quality sleep from your baby, it is about understanding cues from your baby. Observe them, recognise their sleepy signs and then act on that. You know, there's no point you trying to get a baby that's perhaps wired or overstimulated, overtired.
to sleep because that is a real battle in itself. You're better off letting them go through all of that, getting all of that adrenaline out of them and then starting again half an hour, 40 minutes later. So, you know, some parents will, you know, if they think their baby's tired, they will just try to get their baby to sleep and continue to keep trying and trying and trying and trying. I'm like, enough's enough. You know, you have to reach a point where you go, look, I'm only going to try this for a set amount of time that I feel comfortable with.
And if the baby's getting upset and you're getting upset, stop. Do something completely different. Diffuse the whole situation. Go out for a walk, get a bit of fresh air. Just do something completely different and then retry. Your baby will sleep eventually.
Lucy Howell (36:08.162)
Yeah, yeah. Lovely. Thank you so much, Tina. So how can parents get in touch with you or learn more about Sleep Baby Sleeps services and what you do?
Tina (36:14.028)
hoping.
Tina (36:22.166)
Yeah, well, you can Google my name, Tina Southwood, as I've been in business for quite a lot of years now. Google recognises me pretty well. You should be able to find my website link there. That's www .tinaatsleepbabysleep .co .uk. You can find me on Facebook as well, under Sleep Baby Sleep, and I'm also on Instagram, Sleep Baby Sleep.
Lucy Howell (36:46.37)
Fantastic. And I will put all of Tina's links and information in the show notes for anyone that's reading the show notes, they'll be in there as well. So thank you so much, Tina, for coming on. Really appreciate your time and the information that you've given. I think it's going to be invaluable. think sleeping is one of those problems that I think all parents actually have, but probably it's one of those ones that we all seem to struggle with.
Tina (37:15.756)
Yeah.
Lucy Howell (37:16.394)
it's nice to have someone that knows a little bit more about it and just be able to kind of give some advice about it. So thank you very much for coming on. we really appreciate it.
Tina (37:23.618)
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Lucy Howell (37:28.02)
Lovely and maybe we can have you back on again on another time and and have another chat with you about some other questions that people are asking and yeah lovely to have you back on. Definitely lovely Tina Thank you.
Tina (37:36.084)
Absolutely, I'd love to. I'd love that. Thanks ever so much. Take care. Bye.
