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and welcome to the first episode of For All Stages and Ages, the podcast designed for parents and children going through all stages and ages of life. Today we are speaking to Alison. She is a nursery manager and a forest school leader. So we're going to be having a little chat with Alison and finding out a little bit about a day in the life of forest school and what parents and children can expect from a session. So lovely to meet you, Alison. How are you? Yeah, good. Thank you. Fantastic. So what's the philosophy, Alison, behind forest schools and why do you think outdoor learning is important for children? do you think outdoor
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So the philosophy behind Forest School goes back many centuries, right back to Ruble and Russo learning outdoors and identifying that children's learning is innate. It's about their surroundings and how important for their health and well-being being outdoors. The Scandinavian educational approach is outdoor gardens, the kindergarten, literally as it says, child in the garden. And they brought the forest school approach over to the UK back in 1993. And since then, it's just kept evolving. Everyone's realized how important it is for children's emotional well-being as well.
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Brilliant. Okay. evolving everyone's realized how important it is for children's emotional well-being as well
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okay and what would the typical day or a routine be like at a forest school what can parents expect from a session yep so the beginning of the forest school we always sit in our circle around the fire pit and we talk about our safety agreement because that is the key part of forest school we want children to be able to take those risks, but obviously in a safe environment. So we go over capping on those. And then the children are free to explore the environment how they want to. We will have some activities, adult-led, that we will set up. We have a plan based on what happened at the previous session, building on those learning and the skills the children are doing but the children over the weeks as they build their confidence and learn what a forest school is they will come and ask for the tools they will initiate their own learning and it's very much about children making their choices of what they want to do and how. Brilliant. Okay, thank
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So what would be some of the key skills and lessons that children can learn through outdoor activities? What would you say are the key skills that they might pick up?
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So starting with team building. So we do them building with using ropes, tying the knots. We might make rope tying the knots. walk, We might make rope walkways for the children. And that requires a collaborative approach. So the children working supported together, by the adults in that teamwork activity. There's also obviously the emotional resilience. So using tools for the first time can be quite scary for some children. You may have those that stray in and again reassuring them about the safety reminding them and just keep on trying at things using the tools and developing their skills helps to build their confidence and that self-belief in what they can do and develop that resilience which becomes useful life skill for them. Brilliant and with
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schooling it's open to anyone people obviously in a regular school system they have forest schools attached to them but people that are parents that are home educating may want to get involved in either an organization that's already got a forest school or set one up themselves how can they adapt activities for children that may be needing additional assistance so SEN or SEN children how would you sort of adapt activities for children of different ages and developmental stages so forest
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school is inclusive and anyone can access it it's just knowing the children, knowing what their abilities are and making those adaptions. We have a child who's on the autistic spectrum and he comes along, but he's got the adult one-to-one because it's about knowing what level of support they're going to need to keep them safe, but allowing them to still participate in forest school. Would there
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be any different sort of activities or would there be any amendments to any of the activities that would be made or needed to be made for children that do have additional needs?
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like fire. We do have campfires with the children, so we would need to make sure that they're safe, that they're not going to approach that fire. It may be that usually we would have a build up until we actually do the fire and we'd have role play with fire. So until we was confident enough that child would be safe around the fire, we wouldn't light the fire. But it may be that we just have some role play so that they still get that experience.
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Okay. What training or qualifications are needed to run a forest school for parents that may be interested in setting one up for themselves so to be
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school leader you'd need a level three qualification there are lots of other sort of introductory courses level ones and level twos but in an educational establishment you would need a level three and there's also the first aid element as well to consider there is a nursery manager I have a pediatric first aid certificate but I also have a specific forest school which is a 16 hour certificate because it will cover things to do with the outdoor elements things like if someone got hypothermia accidents with tools which are not necessarily going to cover in the paediatric first aid. And
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you've obviously mentioned the safety. Obviously, that's a big thing in forest school because you're outdoors. How can parents and forest school leaders ensure safety for children in an outdoor environment? How can you control that specific area that you're in?
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So it's allowing children to take risks, but obviously the forest score is assessed. What we don't want to do is to take away the benefit. So it's doing a risk benefit analysis, because actually if we take away all the risk, what benefit would that be to that child? Because they're not going to learn how to make informed choices, but absolutely it's making sure that they're shown having that agreement at the beginning of every session recapping those risk activities is key and absolutely it's just knowing the children knowing their abilities and making sure that they are safe but able to make those choices as well. I suppose
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it is just finding the balance that's the whole point of forest school isn't it is to be able to make those choices as well. I suppose it is just finding the balance that's the whole point of forest school isn't it is to be able to have a little bit of a risk element because that's how children learn but it's doing it safely. What are some of the biggest benefits that you've seen for children at forest school?
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Well I think for me just seeing how much they grow and love being outdoors I wish I could do forest school every day because the children come in in the morning and as soon as they see me, I'm the forest school person. We're doing forest school today. And just they thrive in the outdoor environment, I think, because they've got the freedom and they're doing things that are risky and they normally wouldn't be allowed to do. Just really empowers them and motivates them to learn. my little he's four in Yeah, to be allowed boy, to do
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just really April. empowers them and motivates them to learn. my little Yeah, he's four in boy, April. He does forest school at his preschool and he loves it. He loves being outside. So I think
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How does forest school complement traditional schooling or differ from traditional schooling? Is there any key elements there?
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So being in early years, it's very much child- child-centered and that is exactly what forest school is all about the child they're learning being in an education environment where it becomes more formal having those forest school sessions makes it more gives them that respite from the classroom environment it gets children outdoors and it's good for their emotional resilience, their regulation, self-regulation. So whether you're in early years or in a school setting, just getting those children outdoors and making those connections with the environment is just so good for their emotional well-being and just giving them a break from the day-to-day classroom. Great. And I know
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touched on the emotional wellbeing and obviously with the risk factor being a developmental sort of stage that children have to go into. How does being in nature and doing hands-on activities support the different areas of child development, physical, cognitive, social, emotional? Starting
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with the physical development, children climbing trees. How amazing is that? And just getting that different perspective of the world from up high and different viewpoints. Emotional resilience. It doesn't matter if we don't succeed the first time because we're just all going to keep trying. And that's what we want for children. We want them to know it doesn't matter if we don't get it right the first or second time. It's that positive disposition to the learning that they're doing. Emotional wellbeing, just being outdoors in the different seasons, experiencing different weathers, the different learning topics that can come along with that as well. It's just endless. I've seen learning happen that I didn't even expect to see because children will just take it in their own direction. Yeah. And have you
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noticed any major changes in children's confidence, their ability to self-regulate after attending Forest School for a set period of time? I
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time? I think sometimes for children, it's the unknown. So when we first introduced forest schools this is the children's safety net and this is where they used to come in so there was a couple of children that oh no I don't want to do forest school but actually as they started to go week by week they were asking me when they were going to forest school I also had a child who was selective mute and very quiet in the classroom but the parents would say at home they weren't concerned. He would talk. And actually, once he got outdoors and he was doing the bug hunts and the language just tumbled out because he was in an environment where he felt comfortable. It was things that he loved and he knew. So he was excited to share that with us. And I think it is just that you may have a plan and you may think right this is the direction it's going to go in but actually children have their own ideas and I mean they're just inspirational to watch that they do things you just think I would never thought of doing there so it's a really important part of observing children is to sometimes just sit back and watch what they want to
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I took my little boy for Easter last year and they were making a den and rather than making a den they decided to make a rocket they were still doing what they needed to do but to them in their head it was a rocket not a den so obviously going on to that with the vivid imaginations what's one of the most creative stories that a student has invented while playing outdoors in forest school that you can remember?
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We love mud. We love getting muddy and jumping in puddles. And one day they were making mud pies and one of the children decided it wasn't mud pies, it was going to be fence painting. And you don't say no to children. Yes, come on then. So I ended up with mud all over my And face. the children, again, some people paint, don't say no to children. come Yes, on So then. I ended up with mud all over my face. And all the children, again, some people paint, don't they, to have mud treatment? So we allowed this face painting with the mud. But of course, being in a woodland, there's nowhere to wash it off. So by the time we got back, we had stained orange faces for the day. But it was just still great fun. It was following the child's lead. And he was talking about it for weeks after so yeah we've done our bit my little
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boy when he when they were doing the fire pit and my little boy was really upset because the fire department that weren't there he's very into fire trucks and he kept saying can't have fire mummy can't have fire no fire trucks i was like it's okay it's okay have there been any priceless sort of reactions from the children when they've encountered a certain bug or a critter or something outdoors for the first time has there been anything that sort of stuck out in your head
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something that was really heart-touching is every time we go to the forest school and we enter we have a big grandfather oak tree and we always respect our woodland and we ask the grandfather tree to give us a sign that it's okay for us to come in and normally we're just watching a leaf work for all the branches wave to us and the last time we was on forest school just as we was leaving one of the children said oh hang on I need to go and see the grandfather tree and she just gave the grandfather tree a big hug and was like i love you grandfather tree and that was really heartwarming to see just making that connection with the environment and the love for outdoors yeah that's really cute
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how do you as a forest school leader how do you involve and educate parents about forest
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So inviting them on the sessions and open having the activities days, out for them. But I think the main way is to really get them to come to one of the sessions and experience for themselves. I've got memories from when I was a child and I was always outdoors and climbing trees and making dens with the tents and with my mum's sheets on the washing line and it's for them to go back to that and see for themselves actually this is what the children need they need to be outdoors more yeah it's good for the parents to come along
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what has the community's reception been to your forest school have they been welcoming of it have they been wanting their children to maybe come on it yeah absolutely when
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we go to the woodland site we walk there and we our big box that we wheel along and people have actually said to us all what's in your box and the children will excitedly tell them that we're going to forest school and just getting that positive response from them on how lovely it is to see the children
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Are there any community events there or certain celebrations or ways that Forest School can get involved in those sort of
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Absolutely. We have lots of community spaces where there's always groups happening. There's a woodland nearby where they have like a fairy space and you can hang and you can take decorations. And so it's on the local media of things that you can do in those spaces. But for us, when there's community events like that happening, it's just really just getting everyone involved. Brilliant.
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involved. Brilliant and what's the funniest memory that you've got from I'm assuming probably children but maybe one of the adults there as well was the funniest or most memorable incident that has maybe happened during one of your sessions? I think
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there as well was
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it's actually going to be a parent and invited the parents along to a forest school session. And it was a really wet, muddy day. And one of the parents turned up in stilettos. So you can imagine by the time we'd walked through the woodland, the hills had sunk so much. She embraced it. But I think it's just really making sure the parents realise what they need. They need to be prepared when they go into a woodland.
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So actually, we'll go on to that one then next so what do children and parents need to prepare for a forest school session what would your sort of top pieces of clothing or equipment needed
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needed and just obviously depending on the seasons we have watercress for the children but even in the summer if you're going into woodland area still making sure that your arms and legs are covered to protect obviously from nettles any sort of insects that might be around as well so wellies and the clothing absolutely and then it's just having the tools that you're going to need just a bit of road magnifying got to do some identifications and yeah just preparing what you need for that session
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i know we don't necessarily have it in the uk any sort of major incidences outside that we need to be aware of as opposed to man-made kind of things like the fire pit for example bites and things like that that they need specific types of things that they need to be aware of
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of things that they need to be aware of the biggest thing that i was taught on my training is if you're going into a woodland area is obviously the animals that are going to be accessing it could have deers and foxes so it's just making sure i actually have a tick remover in my first aid kit and so that is why again wearing your long sleeves and long trousers to protect you from those lovely yeah i was gonna
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i was gonna ask about the ticks i wasn't sure whether it was
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it was i
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know it's not quite as prevalent as it is say in the us maybe but i know we still do have lyme disease and things like that don't we in this country you mentioned animals briefly so have you ever had any wonderful animal visitors join you during a forest school session or seen anything that's out of the ordinary?
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do have
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So I've not actually seen the animals, but children are fascinated by poo. So we do go on animal poo hunts and identify what animal might have made that.
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yeah. I don't know what that fascination is but yeah do the children ever come up with games or activities that sort of surprise you with their creativity obviously I know you've mentioned about the the face mud mask but has there ever been any other sort of games or activities that they've come up with yeah
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things like tea parties i did an activity recently with them where we use a like a flint strike to light the fire it's a dragon sneeze and the dragon sneeze has caused a fire and all the furry houses are burnt down so i set them the task to go and build their furry houses and actually they evolved it so much these fairy house has had ladders and beds and gardens and they really did use their imagination to develop it yeah it's
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wonderful isn't it really when you can see them actually coming up with these stories and things in their heads and you forget when you get older you forget how to do that i think sometimes it's it is yeah it just it's the little things yeah definitely just to finalize then have there been any moments where the roles have been reversed and the children have taught you something rather than you teaching them
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yeah most sessions the children are telling me what they want to do and we were making a mobile with like hanging mobile trying sticks and leaves and actually the children wanted to make a frame instead so they were telling me what they wanted tools they wanted and then we made a frame and then we were sort of posing having their pictures in the frame as well. Yeah, children just have their own ideas in clay all the time. Yeah, 100%. Alison, that's really interesting
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to hear all of that information about Forest School. And I know some of the parents out there will be very grateful that you came on and have told us a little bit about Forest School. Is there anything that I haven't asked that you wanted to add that maybe the parents that they might need to
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I think also just pointing out that forest school doesn't only benefit the children, it benefits the adults. So I always try to take different adults with me because just being outdoors supports their emotional wellbeing too. Everyone needs to be going out and doing forest school, parents for their children, you're all going to benefit from it. Lovely.
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you very much, Alison. Really appreciate you coming on. And that's our first episode of For All Stages and Ages. And hopefully you will join us in the next one. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
